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February 03, 2005



Hmmm... wonder if Yusoff Haslam will make a movie out of this ala Indiana Jones...

Hero - Tam Spider
Heroine - Misha Omar, as Siti will probably get heat stroke during filming with her baju lengan panjang.

Potential box-office? Maybe.


eh, leave these historical things to Datuk Effendi and wife laa.

Fazu, thank you so much for pasting those articles, I was lost when this became the topic of conversation during dinner do two days ago. I'm so intrigued by it.

Now why can't they just parachute down so that it is easier to reach their destination?


Hi everyone! What about the Gua Kota Gelanggi in Jerantut Pahang?


In today's paper, now the MB Johor says it's probably Kota Klang Kiu or Ganggayu (and not K.Gelanggi). Hmmm... a KKK in our midst.....


Yan: Yes, I read about the Gua Kota Gelanggi in Jerantut, and I think there is some debate on that. As Radnexus indicated, some people think the city is not actually Gelanggi, but something else.

But the quicker they get their ass moving the sooner we'll find out. Hopefully some epigraphic artefacts survive.


have you read mgg pillai's comments on http://www.mggpillai.com/article.php3?sid=2070 ? need to see more perspective then......

rara avis

read about it in the guardian.


Thanks so much for the link to MGG Pillai's take on the discover, KNizam.

MGG Pillai airs some concerns which did cross my mind, of which:

1) as is the case with ANY archaeological finds, there would always be concerns that the findings or conclusions therefrom might be politicised. Mussolini was known for ordering ancient Roman ruins to Istria secretly to justify his actions of incorporating that part of the world into greater Italy. In the case of Gelanggi, the worst thing that can happen is that the findings are twisted to fit any interested party's political, religious and racial agenda, AT THE EXPENSE OF HISTORY.

2) i didn't think much of The Star's apparent monopoly on information concerning the site, but yes, Mr Pillai may be on to something. Or maybe not.

3) it did cross my mind: what if some money-grabbing tycoon or govt officials take advantage of this, desecrating the archeological site at teh expense of the Malaysian public and future generations?

Like Mr Pillai, I have NEVER subscribed to the view that the history of Malaysia, let alone the history of the Malay people, began with Melaka. What absolute poppycock.

I also agree with the view that, in modern Malaysia, most people are only interested in making money. Hoping that this finding would stimulate interest in history may be a bit on the optimistic side.

I may be misjudging Mr Pillai in what I'm about to write (and I stand corrected if that is the case), but Mr Pillai has always struck me as, for lack of a better word, "anti-Malay". The tone he employs when writing about the Malays' Indian heritage, for instance, seems peppered with disdain. I'm quoting from his article:

"To this day, when a Malay considers anything important, he looks for a Sanskrit word to describe it: It is the Sanskrit pradana mantri (the Malay perdana mentri) here while in another Malay land, it is Penghulu ng Pilipina for its president. The Proton car model names are from Sanskrit whilst the Perodua resorts to Malay names and is a poor and inferior to be bought only because the Proton is beyond one's means."

First of all, I'm not even sure if "Penghulu" is a sanskrit word. ("Hulu" in sanskrit means "ram", AFAIK. In malay "hulu" refers to the head or source or upstream. A case of similar sounding words which are unrelated?) But anyway, what are we supposed to make of this remark? That there is nothing in the Malay culture and language that is worthy and capable of describing "high" and beautiful things? and that without the "civilising" influence of India, the Malays would have been a culturally empty people? and even if this is true, should one then conclude that because of this, the Malays are a "lesser" people? I beg to disagree.

also please check another piece by Mr Pillai that seems to downplay the involvement of the Malays in the country's early history at http://www.malaysia.net/lists/sangkancil/1997-10/msg00913.html

As I said, I may be utterly wrong in judging Mr Pillai's intentions, and I am happy to be corrected. I am of course happy that Mr Pillai is around to provide alternative perspectives on things.

torqxic inc

thanx for putting this up in your blog.
personally i never believe melaka is the start of the malays...
well at least for me i am really sure it did not start from melak lah! my susur-galur is a mix of java and southern siam....the real fact is my really close ancestors (atuk & moyang) really came from those places! not too malaysian huh?!!
and if ever hang tuan and the gang existed, i am all for hang jebat....the rest of the gang are (sorry to say) suckerx!!!



Glad your hiatus was a short one-welcome back!

Secondly, am humbled when I compared my mindless ramblings on Raimy's outfit with your comprehensive info on the subject :)

p/s: I think the Kota Gelanggi in pahang refers to a neolithic site rather than the relatively recent site(if confirmed) in Johore.


torqsic: welcome to the site! and what's really "malaysian" anyway? ;)

kaiser-soze: er...what "comprehensive info"? ;)


This post rawks! like it. I was wondering if they could come up with a book or perhaps a documentary on it? Would die to buy one of the books or so... are there any groups we can keep ourselves updated? this is cool...

radnexus: do you know real talent or u r being 'sarcastically' superficial? ;-)


hi there muid: welcome to the site!

(just visited your site. such cool effects! have to learn how to do that too.)

i'm not aware of any groups that you can join to keep being updated on developments re: kota gelanggi, but if you are interested in Malaysian history, you may want to check out this site www.sabrizain.org/malaya.


Just maybe a little bit worried.

So what's the story next? Excavation? How will it be conducted? How may percent will become 'Duit Kopi'? After that will the artifacts goes to Museum Negara? Then how to preserve it? Will it be the same result as the 'Ship Museum' at Melaka (it's a disaster)? Then what happen to Kota Gelanggi? Become a tourism spot? Building eating space, souvenir shop, Ramly burger stall, cendol stall around it? After a few months, the heat subsides, everything back to normal, Kota Gelanggi becoming nothing but a dumping place, or Aedes breeding ground. The colourful stalls will be deserted and becoming AIDS breeding ground.

Yes, i'm kind of worried. Historical and Archeological conservation is not part of our cultural.


hi there joe,

welcome to the site. yes, i agree that all that you mentioned is a concern. but we need to start somewhere. i'd rather find the city and learn from whatever's left than not find it at all... ;)


Thanks for the articles.

Whatever happened?
As suddenly as the talk about it began, it also seems to kave disappeared.


arthur: welcome to the site! very good question. I've been speaking to some people "close" to raimy (as in his acquiantances) and apparently work is under way, though knowing how things work in malaysia most probably at a snail's pace. let's hope they get somewhere soon though.


Thanks for the reply.

I was working in Johore some twenty years ago. To be precise, Kota Tinggi.

I suspected that there were some ancient cities.

I was thinking that one or two might be somewhere near Johore Lama, Teluk Sengat area. Most of the ships plying in that area had to pass by Tanjung Remunia.
The mouth of the Johore River would not have been the same as it is now. So, what is inland might have been the coast.

I hope I can contact Raimy one of these days.

irrigation systems

I wish for at least a weekly post about personal efforts that can be made. Since you went to an extreme end on these efforts, it would be great to hear about your lifestyle then and now.

Govindasamy Gopalakrishna

Ladies and Gentlemen.

Lets be with and open mind. For our future generation of the Malayan Archipelago and the world at large the Kota Gelanggi project should not be abandoned.

We may have "rested" with 1400 (Malacca) for what was available then and it has remained static.

Now that new discoveries are coming forth the future generation should not be denied the truth.

I went on my own to Bujang Valley with the help of two Kedah residents on 7th to 9th July and admire the authorites doing their best to restore the trove of treasures and other findings there.

Bujang Valley and the surrounding neighbourhood may expose more findings and put Malaysia as an advanced country of that era.

I congratulate the local universities in Malaysia and the government including the neighbouring residents who are painstakingly recovering and restoring the treasured buildings for the future generation and the world at large.

Congratulation Malaysia. Keep up the progress. I shall be, as an admirer be visiting this area to see the progress and shall the information with friends and relatives.

Best Regards to one and all.

Govindasamy Gopalakrishna


hi guys and gals,

great findings here.. therefore my believe has been related. visit my site and listens to my face and seek..




Time to start really looking and getting some facts.


Of course it exists...its documentations by the British, Indians and our own Orang Aslis are significant...

But with our Hitler like Islamo Malay government....they have to shelve the discovery of huge Hindu and Buddhist symbols...that will make Parameswara's conversion by Indian Muslims irrelevant. thereby knocking the roots of the socio-political establishment.

In short the constitution may not stand the onslaught of a discovery that shows up a temple far larger then Borobudur and Angkor Wat. Would suggest Malaysian bloggers, archaeologists, historians, adventurers, fund themselves and make their discovery on their own and report it to the BBC, National Geographic and CNN. This has incredible historical and potential tourist value....

This government’s days are numbered anyway. Gestapo like misbehavior will not be tolerated by the information age and new media. Hiding will hasten is fall. A Hindu Johore was the start of Malay civilization. All Malays in this world were Hindu first


How fascinating! I recently booked a Cambodian vacation via http://www.aovtravel.com/guide/special-offers.html, so hopefully I'll get to see this eventually.


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